Ideas for EQL4

2006-06-05 21:31 by term

I like Ake's idea regarding a fixed schedule and there are probably several different solutions, what about this one?

First off we do not play on Fridays & Saturdays. Of the remaining five weekdays each team picks a primary, secondary and third day that suits them. Each team also picks a time that suits them best, say either 19:00, 20:00 or 21:00CET. This is all done when you sign up (where u vote maps) and once the schedule is made you may not change this.

Then we (or rather some script) make the schedule. There will always be a weekday that suits both teams, and if too many teams chose Sunday as theire primary day we could use some modifications to spread the days. Regarding the time a mean value must be most fair.

An example:
csn picks Sun > Thu > Tue @ 20:00CET
sdp picks Mon > Wed > Tue @ 21:00CET
IE theire match will be scheduled Tue @ 20:30CET


Then I have an idea regarding WO's too:

If none of the teams have players at the scheduled time then the result will be 0-0, maybe we could have one backup day scheduled as well but I dunno if that is such a good idea.

If only one team have four players they need to prove that in order to get WO by joining a server and take a screenshot with theire four players and a spectator (prefereable an EQL-admin) present to confirm it.

Just an idea.. let us know what you think please.

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Comments

#1 2006-06-05 22:55 by Term (85.226.178.XXX)

If we like to make this even more advanced we could first schedule all div1 matches and then try to not schedule other games at the same times, might only work in theory but this is all theory atm.

#2 2006-06-05 22:57 by HighlandeR (83.20.175.XXX)

some tweaking:
no point in fixing the schedule that much. I mean, set a date & time as a proposed termin, but let the clans adjust to it.
lets say that usually you prefere to play on tuesday 22:00 CET and this is how your games are scheduled, but this particular week you'd better play the game on sunday couse you got some tough exams to pass during the week and the other team agree to that termin

also clans should have a chance to postpone scheduled game, because of random reason not letting you gather 4 players (or you have them but connection problems or lack of suitable servers disallow you to play)

#3 2006-06-06 00:04 by Term (85.226.178.XXX)

If the rescheduling is done lets say the week before or something I'd guess there will be no problems other then extra work for admins who have to update the pages.

There are several advantages with pre-scheduled matches and one of them is that other players can spectate the matches live (rather then look at demos) and this require an up to date schedule.

Postponing games is the opposit of the whole idea with a fixed schedule and SD will probably play all theire matches last week anyhow then. If were gonna allow postponed games then both teams have to agree on it, I remember csn waiting on server 3 or 4 scheduled times befor Thangorodrim could play (back in EQL1), that is not acceptable.

#4 2006-06-06 00:41 by Term (85.226.178.XXX)

Another point of view is a personal one that I know some other players share. I often have better/other things to do then waiting on servers/irc for scheduled games that never happends. Sure you often find someone else to play against but to not play when you scheduled a game is to show lack of respect for someone elses time.

Yes I do think a fixed schedule will mean more WO:s and disqualified teams the first season and if we end up with 5 teams in each division then clearly we can not have a fixed schedule in EQL5. But if it works then players that wanna play 1-2 matches a week on a fixed schedule and nothing more will have that option.

#5 2006-06-06 00:56 by B1aze (83.237.114.XXX)

No friday and saturday? :((
Best days of week for qw.

#6 2006-06-06 01:09 by Term (85.226.178.XXX)

I'm quite sure noone bothers to read anything I write anymore but.. ;)

This is some stats that ?ke Vader made from the EQL3 games (posted in another news).

Stats on when the games where reported this season. Assuming that most games where reported quite soon after the game was played, one can use this to get some knowledge on how popular the QW days are.

Monday: 30
Tuesday: 26
Wednesday: 22
Thursday: 26
Friday: 6
Satursday: 14
Sunday: 51

These stats are not 100% accurate, i know, but imo they say that sundays are by far most popular. Fridays and saturdays people spend time on other stuff (partying or whatever, only the real QW zealots play then) and the casual games takes place on sunday - thursday with a peak on sunday.

#7 2006-06-06 08:43 by rawdz (83.30.32.XXX)

sorry, but those are kinda sick proposals imho and also i see them as pure scandinavian pov only ;)

1. not every qw player is spotty teenager/alcoholic/etc. who needs to get drunk every friday/saturday cause it helps him to forget him about his life troubles
2. you can meet friends/party etc. on fri/sat and still play some qw if you really like, just organize your time better
3. fri/sat are the only days when you can play really late cause in most cases you don't need to go to work/school on the next day
4. playing late means lower pings for both clans, 21cet is often not acceptable for foreign clans or forces them to use minping 50 or some weird servers which leads to pingwhine, serverwhine and total whine eventually, frustration and no fun, and the game is meant to be fun after all
5. most clans prefers sundays and if you take them fri/sat there won't be enough good servers to play the league/pracs
6. forcing people to stick to the schedule leads imho to even more w.o.'s than if you don't use the force

#8 2006-06-06 11:05 by hmm (141.85.252.XXX)

like.. add other FUCKING maps

cmt3 ftw etc.

#9 2006-06-06 11:25 by Kola (212.214.245.XXX)

To make the scheduling of the games undisputable you can have an easy form for it here on the page wich would also make it easy to browse for people that are interested. I also think that it would help to get the teams in place coz its more "official" so to say, and by now we all know what ppl think of teams that fail to be there when scheduled.. so im sure most would do their best.

#10 2006-06-06 11:50 by Term (85.226.178.XXX)

Sonds like a good idea as well but you need to describe it better. What will stop two lazy teams from not scheduling theire match in advance/in time/at the correct week?

One of the advantages with a fixed schedule is that there will actually be 1(-2) matches / week (and therefore the standings will more exciting as well etc).

#11 2006-06-06 12:30 by HighlandeR (150.254.194.XXX)

>Postponing games is the opposit of the whole idea with a fixed schedule and SD will probably play all theire matches last week anyhow then

not quite what i meant.
more like allowing a team to postpone each game once, but keeping the rule that the game has to be played in given week

admin will have to give permission for that, thus there has to be a good reason to postpone the game (like ping 200, server down, etc)

#12 2006-06-06 12:52 by Term (85.226.178.XXX)

Ok, thats sounds good.

#13 2006-06-06 13:05 by ?ke Vader (82.145.136.XXX)

To rawdz:
In Term's original post where he stated that "we wouldn't play on fridays and saturdays" i reckon he meant that we wouldn't include those days as standard scheduled days in the script. If two clan's agrees on playing on saturday 23CET instead of Tuesday 21CET (or whatever) then that would be perfectly fine i guess. :)

Would be nice to hear some more opinions on this topic. There are alot of players who usually takes part in the discussions who seem absent (because of summer break most likely).

#14 2006-06-06 14:10 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)

I think it would work, maybe not first season, buy when ppl get used to it the players who cant adjust to this kind of scheduele hopefully wont signup for the next season

still as always ppl have a hard time with priorities, they really want to play their games i am sure of that but too much irl stuff gets in their way. i am sure that most ppl join a team thinking they will atleast play like 50% of the maps or so but then they get screwed by irl and thus screwing their clanmates who only are like 3-4 active guys to start with

so please, before you guys out there decides to start a team and join up for eql/nqr/qw4ever try to think it through
"will i have time to play"
"will my wife/kids/family/school/work take too much time"
"do our team have ENOUGH active players so we sont have to give wo 90% of our games"
"will we play even if we lose our first 2-3 games"

other stuff like connection going down, illness, other events that you cant control is ofc acceptable but the above things are imo not. dont join a team/league if u think (an atleast give it a few minutes to think it trhu) that u wont have time.

#15 2006-06-06 14:17 by HighlandeR (150.254.194.XXX)

should we bother about clans that sign up even tho they lack players or time for playing?
i mean whatever rulse you set they wont play their games anyway.

#16 2006-06-06 14:23 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)

such clans can only be prevented if they themselves think before they signup

and i they still signup and idle they should be prevented from entering next season if they cant prove they are active by praccing alot, playing in nqr/qw4ever or ladder (if its active). only then should they be allowed to enter next season if they idled and got kick the last one...

#17 2006-06-06 14:45 by razor (81.225.223.XXX)

i think the problem isnt the scheduling, its the inactivity, its not hard to schedule and talk with the other clans and just agree on a day, but its hard if they are inactive (but still doable) but i think with this it will end up in lots of WO's for those clans that plays less, this system will only work for those who are really active i think. And i dont think its a good idea if we loose all the clans that arnt active, cause the community is so small, i mean with some work you can still manage to finally play vs those inactive clans also, and in the end play vs all the clans, im speaking about div1 mostly i think, i really doubt it will work there :) (this season was the worst ever in div1 thou, wo in semi and final?) but i dont think this system would have helped it

#18 2006-06-06 16:02 by ekeke (193.167.10.XXX)

I'd like to point out that most of the players aren't so geek anymore. People aren't online 24/7 and can be hard to contact.
Our members are from the same country, and we've each others phone numbers but it's still hard, and time consuming, to schedule a match. When I phone the guys and ask them if they're able to play I usually get some "maybys" and "dunnos", so I can't say for sure if whe would be able to play at selected time.
For myself I can say that I havent been loyal to my clan, I've played just 1 of 20 official matches. Mostly because I can't play from home, I've a job, social life and whatnot.
Anyway, I'd rather have a proper schedule page than fixed schedule. A page where clans could propose their best date a.s.o. and where one could see if the date has been set. Because I've had lots of misunderstandings, between members and between clans about what we've agreed.
Long post. Nothing fancy but my personal opnions and experiences.
bg.

#19 2006-06-06 16:27 by mushi (88.214.145.XXX)

i havent read the comments. but what u wrote in the newspost will *not* work

#20 2006-06-06 17:03 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)

it depends on how many clans we want left in the scene

#21 2006-06-06 17:20 by -insane- (83.27.158.XXX)

Please how hard can it be to find 90 minutes for qw during whole week I MEAN COME ON!

#22 2006-06-06 17:21 by dje (213.185.6.XXX)

How hooraytio can write posts like these is beyond me.

1. "when ppl get used to it the players who cant adjust to this kind of scheduele hopefully wont signup for the next season"

2. "and i they still signup and idle they should be prevented from entering next season if they cant prove they are active by praccing alot"

How many players do you think the scene has? Can we afford to prevent clans to participate because they have been idle before? Oh the insanity. I realise you mean well and all, but in order to keep the little scene alive we must give players/clans the benefit of a doubt even if they have a history of idling. The only valid points you make are: "do our team have ENOUGH active players so we sont have to give wo 90% of our games"
"will we play even if we lose our first 2-3 games" which i agree with. If a team expects to have trouble fielding players, disbandon and split up or recruit before the season starts.

To sum things up: I say a semi-active player with kids + wife/work is alot better then no player at all.

#23 2006-06-06 17:46 by Highlander (150.254.194.XXX)

agree with #22 that forbiding the clan to play because of inactivity in previous season is too much. I dont by the 'semi-active' thingy tho'.

insane in #21 is right, it cant be that hard to find a time for ONE game per week.

i play regulary football with friends -> once a week for 2-3 hours. Somehow ppl dont have a problem to come on once scheduled date, even tho they got theirs job, wife, gf's, etc.
how come it doesnt work in qw?

book one evening for qw, that's all you have to do. if you cant play on particular day, no big deal, teams consist of more that 4 players, someone else will play.
if you can predict your team wont be able to play the next/current week, talk to admins to reschedule the game to some other day . Cant be that hard.

#24 2006-06-06 17:46 by HighlandeR (150.254.194.XXX)

'dont by' = 'dont buy' :D

#25 2006-06-06 18:23 by Term (85.226.178.XXX)

I do not so much refere to the div1 divas who actually don't want to play vs each others. I think my team ChoseN scheduled our 5 matches ~10-15 times in total.

I have to agree with Hooray, if our opponent can not respect a scheduled match I do not want to play vs them at all. Why should I waste my time waiting for someone several times?

If a team do not have like six active members then they should not join at all. If I have decided to play 2-3 times a week and my opponent dont even respect our scheduled matches then it makes me less active.

#26 2006-06-06 18:35 by racersnigeln (81.228.231.XXX)

sounds like a bad idea to me, I want to play when I have the time and I feel like playing. I don't want to be bound to play on some specific times.

#27 2006-06-06 18:35 by racersnigeln (81.228.231.XXX)

freedom(not team freedom) for the win \o/

#28 2006-06-06 18:45 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)

if u want to play whenever you like...

GO PLAY 1on1!

and dont bother ppl who enjoy 4on4 leagues...

#29 2006-06-06 18:52 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)

and djevulsk: can you please read my whole post?

"and i they still signup and idle they should be prevented from entering next season if they cant prove they are active by praccing alot, playing in nqr/qw4ever or ladder (if its active). only then should they be allowed to enter next season if they idled and got kick the last one..."

what is the problem with this?
why should a clan that seems to be inactive join a league if they idled last season? IF they havent started to prac or play other 4on4 leagues then there is really nothing saying they will play their games this season either...

its irritating, boring, useless waste of time and whatnot to scheduele and rescheduele over and over... i dont want 5 games and 5 wo's. then id rather just have the 5 games. what do the scene possibly win by adding alot of wo's to the scoreboard? imo nothing...

#30 2006-06-06 18:56 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)

there is a thing called "prac" for the clans that get together and play for fun maybe a few times per month

#31 2006-06-06 18:58 by Term (85.226.178.XXX)

that and please realice that it takes less effort and activity to schedule & play one game every week then asking almost every evening if players "feel like playing" today.

#32 2006-06-06 22:12 by ITS_FOR_REAL (213.114.80.XXX)

I find Akes suggestion most suitable for me.
Im so tired of not knowing if a match will be played cuz teams dont show up and there is no punishment in doing this etc. Also in having a system of fixed days and times when i should play qw is good for planning my weeks.

#33 2006-06-07 00:26 by dje (213.185.6.XXX)

Hooraytio, as i wrote, i think all clans should be given the benefit of a doubt. That means that no league should prevent them from signing up for it assuming they themselves feel that they can play that season. It should be up to the clans and their conscience and not the league administrators.

#34 2006-06-07 04:40 by niomic (62.78.239.XXX)

I'm really leaning on Term's opionions about wasted time. One of the most frustrating things about qw since the beginning has been this culture of waiting around for games and not really committing to anything. And I'm quite certain that I have actually spent 2/3 of my time in leagues and tournaments scheduling and waiting and 1/3 playing.

I can certainly relate to what people are saying about playing sports and having other activities during the week that are set to a certain time. I attend these things as well with fixed groups of people where I know that _enough_ players will show up every time for there to be an enjoyable game (read. 8 in qw 4on4 :)

A lot of people might not have been in such a bad position concerning waiting / scheduling, since a lot of clans have certain active members / captains who take care of this shit work most of the time :/

Having been on break for pretty much a year now, I am strongly considering coming back for example nqr 10, but with my current commitments to work and other activities I really can't take anymore waiting around for people who just can't commit to qw for a couple of hours a week. And I think this is a heavy burden a lot of players that are committed enough are facing when evaluating wether or not bother with joining up :/

#35 2006-06-07 10:50 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)

dje: if they show they are active by praccing or playing other leagues then the admins dont have to doubt if they are active...

if you idled one season and really want to play the next then all you have got to do is start praccing and if you cant do this then why should you play in a league? simple as that...

#36 2006-06-07 15:34 by razor (81.225.223.XXX)

ye term i already noticed before you dont seem to like div1 and think we are divas etc,
but howcome your clan also had troubles scheduling games? doesnt that make your div also divas that dont wanna play their games? well im still against this schedule idea, whynot just have walkovers if the team doesnt show up the 2nd time u scheduled or something. Im just saying it?s not hard to schedule the games, that doesnt take time, and that way you will get the most "secure" time imo, with the most chance of opponent showing up, if they actually AGREED on the time, instead of some automatic thing putting it up. This thing will only make the risk higher of waiting for your opponent

#37 2006-06-07 18:32 by HighlandeR (83.20.241.XXX)

razor, it's not about setting a random date and forceing you to play it.
set any date and time you like as long as you can find agreement with your opponent.

it's about eliminating the situation when season last for lets say 10 weeks and for first 8 noone plays their games.

there's serveral reasons why it sucks big time.

read fixed schedules as one game per week with info on page when the game is to be played to let viewers see that.

the discussion is how to handle the scheduling and different exceptions that will happen

#38 2006-06-07 18:41 by Hooraytio (212.214.218.XXX)

i am still amazed how ppl can go to work, school, whatever, family dinners, soccer practice, dentist, car retailer and like 10 000 other things on time when they have booked a time for it...

BUT they cant even be bothered to put in 1-2 games per week in a game they themselves DECIDED to play? Why is this so hard? dont fucking signup if u cant play atleast 1-2 games per week under normal conditions...

#39 2006-06-07 23:30 by almieda (213.113.151.XXX)

dont change any thing... i like the way it is

#40 2006-06-08 01:16 by allan (81.8.173.XXX)

i dont think you can compare this to work, school, family, whatever. cause the problem is not that you dont have time for a game or two in a week. the prob is to get you and 7 other players to play at the same time... i dont think you can compare it to real life soccer practice or something like that, cause those are generally on fixed times on a certain weekday. thats kinda hard in qw playing different teams all the time.. i dont know if this system would help. maybe just stricter rules for the team who doesnt show up

#41 2006-06-08 01:18 by allan (81.8.173.XXX)

that was one nice tegelstenstext

#42 2006-06-08 13:03 by ?ke Vader (82.145.136.XXX)

(Some of this stuff is in response to allan)

Sometimes it happens that the times or even days for football practice are moved for various reasons, still most of the players can adjust to that time and day and get to the practice. If a football practice starts at 6pm you usually have to be there / get ready like 5.30pm. The training lasts for like 2 hours and then you need to shower and get home. So...that is like 5.30pm - 8.30pm at least for soccer practice only and it's even worse if you live far away from the football club you play for. :)

A QW game is one hour long ("effective time") and with a bit of delay between maps or whatever it may stretch out to two hours. You're also playing from home so there is no need to do any other preparations than log onto the IRC network, say hello to your mates and get in touch with the opponents to agree on server.

People just doesn't seem to make QW a priority and i wonder why that is. Those of us who play QW are also real people, not just names on a monitor, and if you don't turn up for a game you make 7 real people disappointed - People who have spent their time waiting for you and made themselves available at that particular moment. I think that this is where we need to improve the most. This is the case with the scheduling used in previous seasons too. Clans agreed on a date and time. One of the clans got ready to rumble just to know that the other clan didn't even have 4 people - like five minutes before the game was supposed to start. GG

</essay>

#43 2006-06-08 16:53 by Term (85.226.178.XXX)

Another idea would be to have fixed days, for example div5 on monday, 2 tue, 3 wed, 4 thu and div1 sunday. This would take care of ur Allans problem and I also see a few other advantages.

1) The schedule could be tuned so the servers are used optimal, ie the biggest division on Sunday etc.

2) If more then one team can not play then there might be someone else to play against for theire opponents.

3) It will be easier to figure out if you have enough active players before you sign up.

#44 2006-06-08 17:04 by Term (85.226.178.XXX)

4) If two matches are canceled and another match is player there could be some automatic rescheduling made on the pages (when the matchreport is done or something)...

Lets say that the schedule for week 1 is:
TeamA vs TeamB and TeamC vs TeamD
And that the schedule for week 2 is:
TeamA vs TeamC and TeamB vs TeamD

TeamB and TeamD can't play that day in week 1 and instead TeamA play vs TeamC.
TeamB and TeamD will have the rest of week 1 to play vs each others and the new schedule for week2 is automaticly:
TeamA vs TeamB and TeamC vs TeamD

Might be complicated but its just an idea.

#45 2006-06-08 17:08 by Term (85.226.178.XXX)

"player" = "played instead" @ first line, last post, sorry

#46 2006-06-08 17:13 by Term (85.226.178.XXX)

I should think before I post... the 1) part was stupid since servers are used for other matches then EQL. To tune the schedule is probably to put the smallest div on Sunday.

#47 2006-06-10 02:29 by Hooraytio (81.233.18.XXX)

Term: sometimes u think too much, i dont follow all that really :)

#48 2006-06-11 13:03 by ?ke Vader (82.145.136.XXX)

Shit, i accidentally deleted both my and Deathwing's last posts. Sorry. :(

He wrote that it sucked that fridays/saturdays would be skipped in the schedule planning. I replied that if clans would want to, they can reschedule on any day they want. The reason for fridays/saturdays not being counted with in the first place is that it would probably lead to more rescheduled games than if they weren't. :)

Sorry again for the post delete. I deleted some posts from spambots and accidentally marked our posts. Does anyone know of a good spambot protection without using a CAPTCHA that relies ont he GD library for PHP?

#49 2006-06-12 16:42 by peppe (82.212.77.XXX)

it's a great idea Term, but how would this be done? :F

#50 2006-06-14 23:35 by Hooraytio (81.233.18.XXX)

but peppe then?

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